Russell Moore Wants Us To Be Strange (But Not Crazy)

Joining David and Curtis this week is Russell Moore, the director of Christianity Today’s Public ...

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Joining David and Curtis this week is Russell Moore, the director of Christianity Today’s Public Theology Project. With the Southern Baptist Convention taking place next week in the immediate aftermath of a 3rd party report on sexual abuse and institutional coverup, Russell helps us unpack some of what went wrong in his former denomination. He also offers helpful guidance on how church leaders and all followers of Christ should be responding to such situations (hint: it’s not to ignore it or cover it up). He also discusses the issue of “crazy as a church growth strategy,” suggesting that while we are not called to crazy, we are called to the strangeness (in the world’s eyes) of biblical fidelity, mixed with a healthy dose of rational thought.

Show Notes:

–Russell Moore (Christianity Today) – This Is the Southern Baptist Apocalypse

–David French (The Atlantic) – The Southern Baptist Horror

–‎Curtis Chang – The Southern Baptist Convention Sacrifices Congregants on the Altar of Power

–The Russell Moore Show: David Brooks Wants to Save Evangelicalism on Apple Podcasts

–Russell Moore’s newsletter

-Sign up for David’s French Press newsletter

-Follow Curtis’ work at RedeemingBabel.org

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Comments (13)
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  1. Avatar photo
    WKDawson

    That was useful advice on how to pray when we don't know what to pray anymore and need some way to get back to center.

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  2. Brendan Bossard

    I have just finished reading C.S. Lewis's "That Hideous Strength." I have also read "The Screwtape Letters" several times. My skin crawled as I listened to Dr. Moore describe some of the dynamics at the upper echelons of the Southern Baptists. Christians need to beat our breasts at the corruption within.

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    Taylor

    Great episode!

    I'm struggle a bit with the term "exhausted majority". It seems to me large numbers of people aren't checking out due to exhaustion. They aren't getting to the exhaustion phase because they check out early when they can't get their voice heard.

    David does a great job of leading by example, but I'd love to see him lay out his thoughts on what good faith participation looks like online.

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    Ben Connelly

    I’m glad Russell Moore explained the Babel analogy. I, too, felt that Haidt had misunderstood that passage. My guess is that Haidt knows this but used a slightly different interpretation for the purpose of the article, but it did feel off to me.

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    1. Brendan Bossard

      I do not remember Haidt's take, but I think Babel and the theme of unity meshes well. What feels off about the Babel analogy to you?

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        Ben Connelly

        Moore basically articulated how I felt. Haidt seemed to misinterpret the passage. That doesn’t make it less of a useful metaphor, it’s just that the way he writes about it, I felt he didn’t understand Genesis completely.

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    Tammydd

    Thank you for this discussion. I am one of the exhausted middle who badly wants to check out. I was struck by the idea that one of the best things I can do is to just keep doing what I know is right and to keep living my life as reasonably as I can. (In decency and order, according to the philosophy I was raised on.) I know it's not that simple; I know it's not going to solve everything. But it's something I can do! Thank you, Dr. Moore, David, and Curtis for articulating the idea and modeling this behavior.

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    Will Roberts

    I mainly enjoyed this discussion. I have followed Russell Moore for many years and listen to his podcast as well. His book tempted and tried on the temptations of Christ is one of my favorite. I am glad he has stood up for what is right. He demonstrated patience in staying when things got tough and l leaving when all other avenues were exhausted. In attitude and theology I find him to be a model of the faith.

    But I disagree with advice for what to do in these crazy times especially for pastors. I find his advice to just do the right thing to be overly simplistic and easy to say from someone who after he did the right thing got a fellowship and presumably nice salary at Christianity today. After I did the right thing in my first church I got attacked by bees as he would say. I quit and moved in with my parents. Doing the right thing in my experience as a pastor hasn't resulted in any sense of vindication or support. Just hostility or indifference. I would take Russell more serious if he got kicked out of the church went bankrupt, ended up flipping burgers and still said he was glad for doing the right thing. While he has born costs they are not going he costs I have seen other pastors bear who really do need to support their families and have no guarantee that they are going to get a well paid fellowship for doing the right thing. So while I think doing the right thing is important my heart is filled with far more ambivalence and sadness than Russell seems to be.

    Also there is the problem as the book of judges says that each man does what is right in their own eyes. Those this podcast portrays as crazy I am sure some of them know they are wrong but others believe their own bullshit. So if they took Russel's advice things would only get worse.

    I think a better strategy would be a focus on high standards of rigorous debate and growing a thicker skin so you don't throw a fit and walk out the door when your minister or anyone else says something you disagree with. More debates like the one David had with Eric metaxas would be helpful.

    As regards to sexual abuse a basic child protection policy at the local level would be a good idea. No one should be alone with a child for any reason period.

    Ricky bobby stop quoting highlander. It was an awful movie. Say you love crepes! Say it or I will break your arm!

    Agreed top gun Maverick one of the best movies I have seen in the last ten years perhaps ever.

    The original one had a more stalkerish Tom cruise than I remember. A man following a woman into the woman's bathroom to hit on her....what was going on in the 80's? I was too busy grieving over the death of Optimus prime to notice.

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  7. Laurie

    I love listening to this podcast! I could give an "amen" to so many comments, but the one that was the most powerful to me was Dr. Moore's observation (42:30 mark) that the problem with the tower of Babel was the unity. I am witnessing unity (comfort, really) becoming a higher value than even truth in the church. Regarding how so many church members are surly these days, recall how in the 90's, when character used to count, Christians were sounding the alarm that the President's sexual immorality would lead to such behavior in young men. Well I don't know if it happened that way then, but I'm witnessing the believing and spreading of lies, the slandering of fellow citizens, anger, and foolishness (which is also a sin according to Jesus). Funny how after 4 years of a verbally abusive President, such behavior is now tolerated in some churches. As it has always been, today's church leadership really pounces on any sexual sin, but overlooks the sins of the heart. Has anyone ever been kicked out of church for spreading lies on social media?

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    1. Joy Lamentation

      That comment about the false unity of Babel that God was against stood out to me too. Your observations are well stated.
      I do disagree with this statement: “today's church leadership really pounces on any sexual sin”. What I have observed is that so many cherry pick certain sexual sin of others to point to and decry especially outside the church as a means to deflect from and not look at or deal with their own sexual sin (for example: the devastating statistics around pastoral porn use, and the deception that goes along with it, is rotting the church from the inside out- if they won’t walk in purity, holiness, and in the light as those anointed to walk closest with God and shepherd the flock, no wonder things are in the state they are). No wonder they aren’t holding people accountable for lies on the internet. Lying and deception have been normalized in far too many churches. No wonder most pastors are miserable. No wonder sex abuse isn’t being dealt with. No wonder Christians are displaying the fruit you mentioned. The church really is in crisis.
      Perhaps that leads us back to Dr. Moore’s wisdom about Babel. Our church structures have built tall towers to the idolatry of men in power and perhaps the leaving of those structures is very much of God.

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      1. Laurie

        I like your clarification. Your examples remind me of the leaders who only brought the adulterous woman to Jesus and not the man. Same spirit today.

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        1. Brendan Bossard

          I imagine that Jesus may have stooped to write on the ground to stall for time to let some steam off before addressing the woman's persecutors. I am sure the question "And which one of you helped entrap her?" went through his mind as he considered his strategy.

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        2. Joy Lamentation

          Yes. So true.

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